Patrice: Too much power would not be fun without lying for the heck of it. Rumors that the Bin Laden’s elimination did not go as officially announced are getting thicker. Even the New York Times has an impressive spread on it: “What Do We Really Know About Osama bin Laden’s Death?” Famed journalist Seymour Hersh, smells a rat. Hersh exposed many cover-ups, including about the false pretenses fabricated to launch the Vietnam and Iraq wars, the Mi-Lai massacre, the usage of torture by American troops, etc. Hersh worked at The New York Times for seven years in the 1970s, and didn’t think the paper would allow to take his claims about Bin Laden’s dismissal seriously. ‘‘If you did so,’’ he wrote, ‘‘you better be sure not to let your wife start the car for the next few months.’’
Nice ambiance, in the USA. Talk the truth, die. With a reality like that, who needs fiction?
The worst may well come, if present governance, or lack thereof, persists. We are governed by greedy children educated in the plutocrats’ playground. Democracy by representatives is an oxymoron (from oxy, sharp, and moron, stupid). Democracy, People Rule, cannot be “represented”. Either it is, or it is not. Either The People rule, or it does not.
Because dictatorship by a few representatives is still dictatorship (or, more exactly, oligarchy). It ought to be easy to get out of oligarchy: just copy Switzerland.
Right Wing UDC Just Elected In Switzerland, Says It Can’t Ally Itself With French National Front, Because the Latter is “Too Left Wing”.
[“Keep your head on your shoulders“, an expression for “keep your cool”.] Considering the European Union (EU) a terrorist organization is in good jest, not to say well deserved. Other Europeans have been ready to accuse the Swiss of xenophobia (hey, it prevents the focusing of ire where it should go, namely the European Union, and its governments by bankers, for bankers). It is actually the other way around. 7% of people are foreign born in France, 9% in Germany, 13% in the USA… And a whooping 25% in Switzerland. 25% foreign born in Suisse. Instead of Swiss xenophobia, we have Swiss xenophilia.
Eugen R: The worst rule the world, because they are the worst.
Grossly Deluded: Not for long.
EugenR: For ever.
GD: What about Non Violent Civil Disobedience ?
EugenR: At the end the “Non Violent Civil Disobedience” is a human organization, and as such it will either die out, or in worse case will have an organizational structure in which the worst bullies will be on the top. There is nothing new under the sun.
Patrice: It’s even worse than that. “Civil Disobedience” is a sham. It can work, only when the worse, the masters on top, allow it. For example Martin Luther King’s sing-song of America, serves the masters well. The heavy lift was made by president Eisenhower and Earl Warren’s Supreme Court, in the 1950s. Then the Kennedys saw to it that the reforms get finished. “Civil Disobedience” facilitated the work of the highest authorities. It was in no way disobedient.
GD: At the end the truth, that, in the age of internet is a simple finger click away, will win.
Patrice (smirking): Especially when one click away is a lie. The grossest lies are on the Internet, either factually, or emotionally. Putin’s organization, which extends all the way to the USA (where obviously some writers on the pseudo-left are paid by him), has successfully duplicated the methods of the fossil fuel industry, which has inundated the world with a sea of lies rising even faster than the ocean.
Eugen R: In the end the truth wins, the question is when and at what price.
Patrice: Not really true, sorry Eugen. Just something people like to say. Historically, thus factually, it’s not true that truth always win, and it is also philosophically erroneous…
Factually: just ask the Aztecs, the Incas, North American Natives, Jews stepping in the gas chamber, European serfs serving their so-called “Lords” for nearly a millennium, Cathars, and Tasmanians, or Patagons, exterminated to the last, even including the unique genetics of their dogs.
A holocaust is a truth which makes all the lies forever win.
Philosophically: Keynes noted:”In the end, we are all dead”. That truth wins “in the end” means nothing. The truth has to win before the end of the lives of those submitted to the lie, or before causing them grave injury… At the very least. But Eugen, please proceed, sorry to go on a tangent which is at the heart of the problem!
Eugen R: In between the lie and the victory of truth, lies and cruelty celebrate. Just remember the last century events (Hitler, Stalin, Mao Zedong, Pol Pot, Mugabe, I mean Dr Mugabe, etc.). All of them are gone (except the least evil, Dr Mugabe). Did you know Pol Pot studied in Paris?
Patrice: Not only did Pol Pot study in Paris. So did Chou En Lai. Chou was the perpetual Chinese Prime Minister under Mao. After the latter’s death, he insured the transition to Deng Tsiao Ping, a colleague of his in Paris. Both were workers there, and were taught Communism, there, in Paris. Hannah Arendt fled to Paris, Marx used the British Library massively, paid by his capitalist friend Engels, Beethoven got enamored with Napoleon before realizing his mistake. But I am digressing.
Eugen R: Don’t be upset by history but learn from it. And now you have the Islam fundamentalism, that is all about cultural and religious non-tolerance, racism (Sudan, Darfur, etc.), legitimization of enslavement of the non Muslims, intellectual degradation of women, death penalty for apostasy (Under current laws in Islamic countries, the actual punishment for the apostate (or murtadd مرتد) ranges from execution to prison terms. Islamic nations with sharia courts use civil code to void the Muslim apostate’s marriage and deny child custody rights, as well as his or her inheritance rights for apostasy. Twenty-three Muslim-majority countries, as of 2013, additionally covered apostasy in Islam through their criminal laws.), etc.
GD: The real question is do we have less fear because we have more access to knowledge? Or more fear because the media has portrayed fear as the new normal? I am not sure that mass herd mentality works in modern society anymore. And that is how dictators ruled. The new fear is forced acceptance. It is worse. Or should I say financially forced acceptance.
Patrice: Fear is how to control the masses. The USA is often cleaner and more orderly than comparable European countries, because the repression is Prussian style: steal a pizza slice, go to jail for life, throw a banana peel, enjoy a $1,000 dollar fine (2% family income), etc..
Alexi H: I believe that unarmed truth and unconditional love will have the final word in reality. This is why right, temporarily defeated, is stronger than evil triumphant. Take the example of Martin Luther King, Jr.
Patrice: Dear Alexi, this statement is as clever as claiming that the dinosaurs did not die, because they knew love and truth. Which they did.
Eugen R: Yes, they were in history few good leaders who won. Martin Luther King is among them, others are Nelson Mandela, M. Gandhi, V. Havel all of them won, but at what personal price. Two of them murdered, two served years in jail. And anyway after them came some scoundrels destroyed anyway their achievements. Still the strife for self evident justice (that’s what these leaders were after) must go on. But who are the new Mendelas, Gandhis, Kings or Havels? In the best case those who came after them are at the best Obamas.
Alexi H: It is a process. In the last 500 years from time of Galileo (who was threatened by his Church for telling the truth about the nature of the planets) to today there has been tremendous progress on a global scale. We, endowed with progressive values and committed to the path of love, must remember that darkness is also part of human nature (perhaps an essential part) and remain vigilant — and hopeful.
Patrice: Cruelty and ferocity made humanity master of its fate. Hence our quandary. “Tremendous progress” has to be taken with a bucket of salt. It’s a preferred sing-song of the right, which is that we live in the best of all possible worlds.
Simplicius: What’s your point, Patrice?
Patrice: The fascist plutocrats took over the Roman Republic, and made it increasingly grotesquely horrible… Until the Roman empire became desperately dysfunctional in the time of the “Barrack emperors” of the Third Century. Soon the extremely ferocious teenager Constantine, son of his imperial father, having made himself emperor, imposed Catholicism (which he considered to have invented, modestly defining himself as the “Thirteenth Apostle”).
Christian fanaticism, entangled with Constantine’s tyrannic rule, so cruel, he killed the individuals closer to him (except his mother, “Saint” Helena), got ever worse, and Christianism, driven by the “Book of Apocalypse”, embarked on the fundamental Biblical mission of destroying civilization, necessary for the Second Coming of Christ. To this day, nearly completely destroying civilization is the greatest achievement of Christianism.
Thereafter, most of the philosophy, books, sciences, arts and even techniques of Antiquity were destroyed. Civilization got nearly annihilated, and saved, in extremis, by the Franks. The rest of the Roman empire was not that lucky, while the Frankish reconquista from Christian and Muslim theocracy, went on certainly for eight centuries, and, arguably, to this day (through descendant regimes such as all European powers, and their colonies, such as the USA).
Coming out of near implosion into terminal obscurantism, fascism, theocracy and plutocracy, the illusion that we have progressed so much. Nothing to celebrate without a twinge of horror. OK, we have come out of the abyss in which we had fallen. Is that “tremendous progress”?
But let Eugen roll:
Eugen R: Alexi, I assume you never lived in a country where the government terrorizes its citizens. Try to express your truth in one of the terror countries, like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc. Try to say there, it is wrong not to let women to have education (about 50% of them are illiterate). Try to say something about freedom of faith. Communism was wiped out only 20 year ago, its leftovers are regimes like the one in N. Korea but also Cuba. You say, ……darkness is also part of human nature…. The question is not if darkness is part……..it definitely is and nobody can deny it, but how do you fight it. In most of the cases the fight is with even more darkness.
Patrice: This is the point made in “Star Wars”. There is the Dark Side of the Force. That means there is a Bright Side to the force. Force, Bright or Dark, brutal or clever, is what characterizes humanity. Now it’s applied to the entire planet. We are terraforming Earth.
Alexi H: I have never lived in a terrorizing country. I did have terrorizing parents and an entrenched belief in a terrorizing Pentecostal God. I am a racial minority in a world that devalues everything I do because of my skin colour. We all have our challenges. In the end, it is arrogant for me to think you can make (force) people do what I think they should do or feel what I think they should feel. This is exactly the mindset of the dictator and I reject that thinking completely.
The best I can do is look at my inner signaling. I seek to elevate my own consciousness and change myself for the better. The next step is the social conversation. I share my thinking and values with others in the hope that they too will be inspired to change themselves for the better.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that.
“Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that.”
― Martin Luther King, Jr.
Patrice: Martin Luther is the Kim Kardashian of thinking. He sold well obvious lies serving the violent men at the helm. Serious hatred is driven out only by force greater than it can muster. Claiming otherwise is showing off one’s ignorance of history, hence one’s ardent proclivity to repeat it.
Eugen R: Sorry Alexi, this time M.L.King had it wrong. The Nazis were defeated by Stalin, just because his cruelty did not have limits, while the Nazis limited their cruelty only to the non Germans. Without Stalin the Western powers would never stand against the Nazis.
Patrice: Without the Western powers, Stalin would have been defeated. The Nazis lost the Battle of Moscow (December 1941-January 1942) only because the Siberian army of 250,000 elite polar soldiers had been transported by train from East Siberia, once Stalin was sure that the Japanese were going to attack the USA, not the USSR. That army skied around the frozen Germans, enjoying the coldest winter in 50 years (same act of God already used with Napoleon to help Russia), and cut them from behind everywhere. The Nazis tried to retreat, but could not even dig holes in the rock solid icy ground using explosives and howitzers.
Western material help, through Murmansk and Iran, was enormous. It also brought crucial intelligence, thanks to code breaking, such as for the battle of Kursk (largest tank battle ever fought, the crucial stake through the Nazi vampire’s heart).
Alexi H: If you think about it carefully, the darkness of Hitler was replaced by the darkness of Stalin. This was true for the USSR, East Germany, East Berlin and most of East Europe. So Stalin did not drive out darkness, he just replaced it with his own dark shadow.
Patrice: Careful thinking in matters of causality requires correct chronology. Also Marxism itself, a German idea, was a maddening confusion between “capital” and “dictatorship”, thus justifying, and calling for, the “dictatorship of the proletariat”.
Eugen R: Alexi, Stalin was in control by 1923, ten years before Hitler (Lenin tried to stop him at the end of his life).
Patrice: Moreover, Hitler was not really in control before 1935 (when he persuaded the army to make him Chancellor-President).
German and Russian fascism were entangled since 1915. The German High Command, under Ludendorff’s personal direction, ferried Lenin’s government across Germany from Switzerland in 1917. From early 1915, agent “Parvus” (Israel Lazarevich Gelfand) channeled German government financial support to Lenin’s Bolsheviks. The support went on, even after Lenin took power. Sure enough, Lenin offered Eastern Europe to the Kaiser, and after a time of trouble post 1918, the Stalinists helped Germany to secretly rearm.
The French started the nuclear bomb program in 1938. Nobel Laureate Irene Curie was certain that a bomb could be made. The program went to Manhattan, in total secret to the Nazis, and total opening to Stalin. Hitler would have been nuclear bombed into submission. The French were first to bomb Berlin, in 1940, driving the Nazis into apoplectic fury.
EugenR: If we speak about destiny probably Hitler would survive even the nuclear bomb, as he survived about 30 assassination attempts. If to believe in God, here you have him. God is against humanism and humanity, and mainly against his “chosen people”.
As God misled His Own People, some Jewish rabies made a trial of God in some extermination camp, and their verdict was, Death penalty. But then after the verdict they went to the next ceremonial pray. The religion is not about morality (mostly in contrary), not about reality or evidence, not about belief in truth (I know many skeptic believers), not even about tribalism since there are religious newcomers, who did not grow in the tribal tradition.
It is all this about some false answers to questions of eternal life? It can be right for some, but not for everyone. So tell me, what it is all about? The faith in communism did not include even belief in eternal life, and still it has so many followers. It seems religion or faith is a need of the human spices to believe in some fundamental dogma, be it even an obvious lie, all it needs is enough followers, and supporters of a false idea. In a way to be a football club fun is also a religion.
Patrice: Hitler’s charmed lives have lots to do with the collaboration he was getting from Anglo-Saxon countries plutocratic governments, its intrinsic fellow souls (hence the very bad relationship of the French Republic with the USA, starting in 1934, and extending all the way to 2003, for the same sorts of reasons!)
Churchill had given explicit orders to not try to assassinate Hitler. Yet Hitler was a case where a particular guy, Hitler, was exerting a particularly evil influence. If any of the top Nazis had replaced Hitler, things would have improved. The same situation is happening with Assad.
(Notice in passing that when the British government wanted Reinhart Heydrich, official number two of the SS, and “Himmler’s brains”, assassinated, they made it so!)
Top German generals tried to incorporate the governments of Great Britain and the USA in a conspiracy to kill Hitler, arrest the Nazis, and avoid World War Two. Instead, they were denounced to Hitler… By the Anglo-Saxons. Hey, business is business, and business is the business of the USA, or, at least, its financial masters. Why would the USA help France, or Britain by helping German generals avoid a world war? Exasperated by his anti-Nazi ambassador, Dodd, a university of Chicago historian, who was plotting at the Tier Garten (zoo) with his friend the French ambassador, Francois-Poncet, good plutocrat-president Roosevelt had him replaced by a pro-Nazi, and that was it.
At that point the top German generals could only deduce that the Anglo-Saxon governments were supporting Hitler’s aims, and were, objectively, his allies. They looked around, and saw that Stalin’s USSR, Mussolini’s Italy, Hiro Hito’s Japan were also supporting Hitler. France was completely isolated. The Jews were toast: they could only flee to South America, or… France.
However, had the German generals knew their history better, they would have realized that this was, again, the same exact trick as in 1914: France all alone, apparently isolated, with a world alliance pointed at her, and a friendly Uncle Sam ready for ever more business with fascist, racist imperial Germany.
What could go wrong?