Russian Jet Downed By Islamizing Turkey

Big wars have started for much less. What we know is this: a Sukhoi 24 Swing Wing Tactical Bomber, a work horse of the Russian Air Force, in service for decades, was shot down by Turkish F16s. Putin, rightly, called it “a stab in the back“. Except, as we will see, Turkey is pursuing an imperial dream, and hoping to get leverage from NATO to do so. Both of those dreams are nightmares which make the Islamist State a walk in the park, in comparison. And Obama’s Islamist wet dream is much to blame, as I will explain

The Captain and the Navigator ejected safely, but Pro-Turkey anti-Assad rebels fired on the parachuting crew, killing one of them. The latter fact is a direct violation of the Geneva Convention:  attacking people parachuting from an aircraft in distress is a war crime under Protocol I in addition to the 1949 Geneva Conventions. They also fired on a rescuing Russian helicopter, killing one Russian marine.

According to a document leaked by Wikileaks, the Turkish government admitted that the plane was over a saillant of Turkish territory, for only 17 (seventeen) seconds, just around the time it takes for a full yawn.

The Russian who survived got the top prize as a navigator, a few years back. As well as denying Ankara’s assertions that the plane was in Turkey’s airspace, navigator Murakhtin, who says he knows the mission area “like the back of my hand,” also refuted Turkish officials’ claims that the pilots were warned repeatedly.

Clearly A Deliberate Aggression Of NATO Backed Turkey

Clearly A Deliberate Aggression Of NATO Backed Turkey

In actual fact, there were no warnings at all. Neither through the radio, nor visually, so we did not at any point adjust our course. You need to understand the difference in speed between a tactical bomber like a Su-24, and that of the F16. If they wanted to warn us, they could have sat on our wing,” said Murakhtin, who is currently recuperating at Russia’s air base in Latakia, northern Syria. This is indeed correct. The F16 is much faster and maneuverable. The Turks shot down a Russian plane, which indisputably fell in Syria, because they wanted to shoot down a Russian plane.

The consequence is that now Putin is going to bring all sorts of deadly missiles and planes to cover Russian tactical bombing. Some Russian anti-aircraft missiles can go 400 kilometers, at Mach 4. For a little while, France flew its bombers without armed escort, but that would have to change if the Russians get really trigger happy, Turkish style (except the Turks really indented harm, obviously).

The Russian navigator made an astounding admission: “As it was, the missile hit the back of our plane out of nowhere. We didn’t even have time to make an evasive maneuver.”

It brings questions on Russian MAWS (Missile Warning Systems). These are generally connected to various counter-measures, such as taking evasive action, ejecting flares, or flashing lasers at the incoming missile.

More generally, NATO may ponder its association with Turkey. Having Turkey drag NATO into a conflict with Russia is a NO-NO. Turkey Islamizing government has been playing a very complicated game. In particular by using Islamist tricks to support a fighting force of 10,000 “Turkmen” whom it has tried to Islamize, using the Muslim Brotherhood. The idea has been to block the Kurds, whom Turkey also directly bombs.

On February 21, 2015, Turkey launched an invasion of Syria by 500 men supported by tanks and warplanes, to open the mausoleum of the medieval warlord Shah Suleiman, the grandfather of the first Uthmanid emperor Osman Gazi ben Ertugruo. They removed the remains of this man who died 779 years ago, and brought them back to safe ground.

This curious foray may sound pretty crazy, but there is a general method to it. Neo-Ottoman fantasies are taking a growing grip on Turkish leaders’ imaginations. They see the Arab Spring as an opportunity to rebuild the region as an empire with Istanbul as capital, no less. And now they have won elections, giving them 5 years to pursue Islamization, their way.

Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu wants to build a born-again Ottoman Empire, in which Istanbul would “reintegrate the Balkan region, Middle East and Caucasus”. Hey, if Russia can try to do it, so can Ankara.

Turkey’s religious-right government has imposed an Islamist leadership on the insurgents fighting Bashar al-Assad, using as elsewhere in the region, a cooperation with the Muslim Brotherhood.

Those who were so much against European empire may some day discover reality: nature abhors a vacuum. Taking Europe out, brings back Turkey. Europe spent a millennium fighting Turkmen in the Middle East. A combined assault led mostly by Russians, Greeks, French and British (and let’s not forget the Australians at Gallipoli), in the last 300 years, succeeded to push Turkmen back to Anatolia (which they invaded less than 1,000 years ago).

However the Turkmen’s mentality exterminated or ejected millions of Greeks, Armenians and Kurds in the last century. So Turkish imperial fascist ways have stayed strong.

The Muslim Brotherhood resisted the secularising, Arab-nationalist Ba’ath, starting in 1963. Later it capitalized on protests provoked by high prices and housing shortages. This set off a cycle of violence which ended in the regime of Assad father ’s destroying the Brotherhood in a 1980 carnage with a city annihilated and more than 25,000 dead.

Liberals are aghast that the Muslim Brotherhood has hijacked their revolution. The truth is that Islam is a deep network, not just underground, but neurologically: a war religion perceived as a religion of peace, it has got all its bases covered.

For the West, the ongoing war is becoming increasingly a moment of truth. In 2009, United States’ president Obama went to Cairo to sing the praises of Islam. He thought that was smart, modern, In truth, that was a return to the Middle Ages.

More specifically, Obama’s told his aides that there are tensions between the Muslim and the West which root in colonialism. Sorry, Bambi, the roots are much deeper than that. The roots themselves are as deep as the word “Europe”. Because that word got used by the Franks to symbolize their resistance to the Islamist invasions.

Obama also said that he knows from his personal experience that the West and the Islam are not separate worlds because they share things such as love of God and family. Except God does not exist, and families always exist, so Obama was just agitating his tongue. He may as well have evoked the Moon.

Ever since the USA and Europe have put their faith in the “moderate jihadist”, a unicorn-like beast spitting fire, great killer of unbelievers, idolaters, apostates, pagans, other Muslims, Yazidis, and all enemies of God, yet respectable enough, admired by Obama, and a lover of families.

Now, it seems that this intriguing chase of the impossible presents some disagreements, such as Jihadists in our midst, killing the “idolaters” of music and cafes. The West must choose between going on, enunciating non-sense about Islam’s goodness, or reluctantly accept Bashar al-Assad’s brutally secularist regime as the less bad of a set of options which are all bad. But an increasingly insanely aggressive, Islamizing Turkey is potentially a much worse problem than Assad.

Speaking of encroaching insanity, Putin has been trying to amend his ways. He should be encouraged to do so. Meta-policy consists in encouraging the good moods.

When Obama went to Cairo to encourage Islam, he made the immense moral and strategic mistake of encouraging “Islam” (When talking about Algebra, no need to thank Islam; actually a Greco-Indian invention). Encouraging Islam just encourages war, because war is what the Qur’an is mostly about (read it!) So now Obama has got what his mood led to: more Islam, that is, more war. He compounded this when he refused to punish Assad personally for mass gas attacks. So now Assad is all what secularists have to work with (besides the Kurds). Putin agrees. No choice. Simply the West should try to protect secular rebels… who have to buy oil from… the Islamist State. War is complicated, always.

But the war we have, ultimately, is one between the mood leading to secular, direct democracy and its enemy, Islam, an objective ally of tyranny (read the Qur’an!) and plutocracy. That God Obama loves and respects so much, plans to destroy all of humanity (read the Qur’an, especially the latter Suras). What is more satanic?

Patrice Ayme’

Annex 1; Obama in Cairo: …”a new beginning between the United States and Muslims around the world; one based upon mutual interest and mutual respect; and one based upon the truth that America and Islam are not exclusive, and need not be in competition. Instead, they overlap, and share common principles…” How can one put a state (the USA) explicitly founded as secular, in the same category as a superstition (Islam)? Obama also deliberately hijacked the famous Washington-Adams declaration on the secularism of the USA, which I have quoted many times, well before 2009. Obama selectively sampled it, like a disk jockey from hell, cutting out the secular part, to make it sound pro-Muslim. So now Obama has got the Islamist State which, he says, is not a State of Islam, but the work of Satan: Commander-in-Chief of the Truly Faithful? The mood of theocracy spreading got (re)launched in the West, by the USA, during McCarthyism, and has made Western leaders mushy in the mind. But then you can call Obama a McCarthyist, and that’s great fun.

Annex 2: Lawmakers from the Kremlin-friendly A Just Russia party introduced a bill calling for a maximum punishment of five years in jail for those who deny that the mass killing of Armenians by Ottoman Turkey in 1915 was a genocide. (France recognizes formally the Armenian Genocide, since 2001, but, differently from the Jewish Genocide, denial is not punished by law.)

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20 Responses to “Russian Jet Downed By Islamizing Turkey”

  1. ianmillerblog Says:

    Patrice, if we are not going to forget the Australians at Gallipoli, we might recall that New Zealanders were there too. As an aside, that campaign, in the broader sense, must go down as one of the most inept military campaigns ever, mainly due to those fighting having to accept incompetent geriatric British Generals. However, leaving aside that, the way Turkey is going is really troubling. Ataturk wisely recognised the need for a secular state; to throw that away is very stupid and the average Turk will pay, but so will a lot of others. The other disappointing observation is that Obama seemingly does not even recognise that there is a problem .

    • Gmax Says:

      Obama is just a brainless dude from Hawai’i. He was selected to be president precisely because of that. And it was a long time coming: his dad was brought to Harvard, not so much because he was a genius, but because, through him, the CIA could do to Kenya what it did to Russia.

      Patrice pointed out that the pinnacle of Obama’s moral system, as described by Obama himself in his memoirs, was ‘navigation’.

      So Obama is a CIA dude. He sees what he is told to see by his operators. Turkey is indeed going the way Ata turk did not want it to go

    • Patrice Ayme Says:

      There were French troops at Gallipoli too.
      The French changed strategy in the rest of the Balkans, though, and went back to mobile, go around war. They cut off Austro-Hungary and Germany from food. In summer 1918.

    • Patrice Ayme Says:

      Secularism is so out of the window in Turkey that Sultan Erdogan is in Islamist danger…

  2. Gmax Says:

    It is interesting to see that, in light of unexpected events, you changed your recommended strategy both with Putin and Assad. But I think you are very right

    • Patrice Ayme Says:

      Situation has changed. When I was for bombing Assad, it was just to replace him by a more civilized general. However, in the meantime, clearly, ISIS has used gas too. So Assad got us where he wanted us. War is a chess game. Maybe he changes his music, and ways, and get civilized enough to transfer power to more civilized, not in his family strongmen…

  3. lenny Says:

    17 seconds of incursion but only travelled, apparently, 1.15 miles meaning that it must have been flying at stall speed!? 17 seconds to get clearance to shoot down a plane and execute – not long enough. Unless it was already pre-ordained, or as a pre-text to empire building, perhaps?

    • Patrice Ayme Says:

      Yes, but there is more. I did not bother with hilarious Turkish mathematics in the essay (although I mentioned it right away if a tweet, that’s why I knew they were lying right away). The numbers and geometry the Turks presented were mathematically impossible.
      Also, normal manners is to escort out, not shoot.
      What I see as dangerous is that Turkey is trying to drag NATO in. By contrast, France did not try to evoke NATO article 5 (which she could have). But instead activated the Lisbon EU Treaty (because France has had enough of doing all the heavy lifting alone. Just yesterday a French soldier died in Mali).

  4. indravaruna Says:

    Russia and Assad are right after all, I always knew it 🙂

    • Patrice Ayme Says:

      Well they created a situation where they are right. Right now.

      USA president Wilson did same in WWI: first, he aided and baited, and helped, the Kaiser. Then when Wilson had really a good European war going for 3 years, he declared that he would help the good guys. Assad helped the Islamist State initially. Putin messed up in Ukraine, until he understood that was not going to be easy, and could even turned out dangerous, while his economy tanked. Antagonizing French and Germans, who are favorably disposed to Russia, was self defeating (together they have 3.5 times Russia’s GDP…) So he found a more worthy war, all the more as the growth of Islamist power, in Turkey, or Syria is a threat for Russia’s calm.

  5. tom Says:

    You forget the leaked turkish foreign ministry documents demonstrating Turkey’s role in fuellingthe crisis in Syria and intervention. The official reply was to go after the leakers. Anyway, lenny’s point is clear and obvious, even according to the best scenario for Turkey, i.e. taking their word for it. It should also be added that Turkey routinely and for many decades violates greek airspace (up to 40 times/day) and there are daily dogfights without actual firings, but as of yet 4 planes have crashed in the dogfights trying to take the advantage and 3 pilots are dead.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek%E2%80%93Turkish_relations (see incidents). Imagine applying the 17 seconds rule.

    • Patrice Ayme Says:

      I am not familiar with these leaked documents, but it is pretty clear that Ankara has been throwing gasoline on the fire. See what happened during the siege of Kobane, for example, when the Turks mostly hindered the Kurds.
      With Greece, Turkey has been pretty much abominable, from day one. That was around 950 years ago. And it goes on, with the question of Cyprus. (Say.)

      • tom Says:

        Hi Patrice
        It’s much worse than Kobane. Look at these
        https://www.rt.com/news/turkey-block-youtube-twitter-649/
        “he latest leaked audio recording, which reportedly led to the ban, appears to show top government officials discussing a potential attack on the tomb of Suleyman Shah, the grandfather of the founder of the Ottoman Empire.
        The tomb is in Syrian territory, but protected by Turkish soldiers.

        On the tape, Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu is heard saying that Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan sees any attack as an “opportunity” to increase Turkish presence in Syria, where it has staunchly supported the anti-Assad rebels. Security chief Hakan Fidan then goes one step further, and suggests staging a fake attack to give Turkey a casus belli to intervene in the conflict.

        “I’ll send 4 men from Syria, if that’s what it takes. I’ll make up a cause of war by ordering a missile attack on Turkey; we can also prepare an attack on Suleiman Shah Tomb if necessary,” the security chief said.

        Turkish officials have recently vowed to protect the tomb as its “national soil.”

        The Foreign Ministry in Ankara reacted to the tape by issuing a statement, calling the leak a “wretched attack” on national security. It also claims the tape was “partially manipulated.”

        “These treacherous gangs are the enemies of our state and people. The perpetrators of this attack targeting the security of our state and people will be uncovered in the shortest time and will be handed over to justice to be given the heaviest penalty,” the ministry said.

        “This is a clear declaration of war against the Turkish state and our nation,” came a statement from Davutoğlu himself.

        Although whom to blame in this is not clear, Erdogan, who is facing crucial local polls this Sunday, claims the supposedly doctored recordings are the work of a US-based Islamic cleric who is out to topple him and destabilize Turkey.

        A source inside the office of President Abdullah Gül, who has taken a softer line than Erdoğan over the series of government leaks, told Reuters that access to YouTube may be restored if the sensitive content is removed, even though the original video has been deleted.

        Invoking national security and privacy concerns has been the government’s tactic in fighting off a stream of leaks showing top officials engaging in unsavory or downright illegal practices.

        Erdoğan has also repeatedly claimed that most of the audio recordings are fakes. He labeled the latest audio revelation “villainous” during a stump speech in Diyabakir.

        Twitter, another popular source for leaks, has already been shut down in Turkey since March 20, after a court order.

        See also
        http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2015/07/08/419371/Turkey-NSA-Syria-Erdogan-Davutoglu

        Furthermore from
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_involvement_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War

        May 2015 Cumhuriyet video[edit]
        In May, there was a public scandal over video footage released by the newspaper Cumhuriyet purporting to show Turkish intelligence shipping arms to Syrian Islamist rebels. The editor-in-chief and more than thirty officers involved in the search and the attempted search of another truck of weapons some time earlier now face charges for breaking counter-terrorism laws, attempting to overthrow the government and military espionage.[47]

      • tom Says:

        Have a look in any of these:(quoting from the last)

        https://www.rt.com/news/turkey-syria-phone-leak-861/
        http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2015/07/08/419371/Turkey-NSA-Syria-Erdogan-Davutoglu
        http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/turkey-youtube-ban-full-transcript-leaked-syria-war-conversation-between-erdogan-officials-1442161

        n the conversation, intelligence chief Fidan says that he will send four men from Syria to attack Turkey to “make up a cause of war”.

        Deputy Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Yaşar Güler replies that Fidan’s projected actions are “a direct cause of war…what you’re going to do is a direct cause of war”.

        Turkey’s foreign ministry said the leaked recording of top officials discussing the Syria operation was “partially manipulated” and is a “wretched attack” on national security.

        ADVERTISING

        In the leaked video, Fidan is discussing with Davutoğlu, Güler and other officials a possible operation within Syria to secure the tomb of Suleyman Shah, grandfather of the founder of the Ottoman empire.

        Full transcript (translated by @castizbey):

        Ahmet Davutoğlu:
        “Prime Minister said that in current conjuncture, this attack (on Suleiman Shah Tomb) must be seen as an opportunity for us.”

        Hakan Fidan:
        “I’ll send 4 men from Syria, if that’s what it takes. I’ll make up a cause of war by ordering a missile attack on Turkey; we can also prepare an attack on Suleiman Shah Tomb if necessary.”

        Feridun Sinirlioğlu:
        “Our national security has become a common, cheap domestic policy outfit.”

        Yaşar Güler:
        “It’s a direct cause of war. I mean, what’re going to do is a direct cause of war.”
        ——–
        FIRST SCREEN:
        Ahmet Davutoğlu: I couldn’t entirely understand the other thing; what exactly does our foreign ministry supposed to do? No, I’m not talking about the thing. There are other things we’re supposed to do. If we decide on this, we are to notify the United Nations, the Istanbul Consulate of the Syrian regime, right?

        Feridun Sinirlioğlu: But if we decide on an operation in there, it should create a shocking effect. I mean, if we are going to do so. I don’t know what we’re going to do, but regardless of what we decide, I don’t think it’d be appropriate to notify anyone beforehand.

        Ahmet Davutoğlu: OK, but we’re gonna have to prepare somehow. To avoid any shorts on regarding international law. I just realised when I was talking to the president (Abdullah Gül), if the Turkish tanks go in there, it means we’re in there in any case, right?

        Yaşar Güler: It means we’re in, yes.

        Ahmet Davutoğlu: Yeah, but there’s a difference between going in with aircraft and going in with tanks…

        SECOND SCREEN:
        Yaşar Güler: Maybe we can tell the Syrian consulate general that, ISIL is currently working alongside the regime, and that place is Turkish land. We should definitely…

        Ahmet Davutoğlu: But we have already said that, sent them several diplomatic notes.

        Yaşar Güler: To Syria…

        Feridun Sinirlioğlu: That’s right.

        Ahmet Davutoğlu: Yes, we’ve sent them countless times. Therefore, I’d like to know what our Chief of Staff’s expects from our ministry.

        Yaşar Güler: Maybe his intent was to say that, I don’t really know, he met with Mr. Fidan.

        Hakan Fidan: Well, he did mention that part but we didn’t go into any further details.

        Yaşar Güler: Maybe that was what he meant… A diplomatic note to Syria?

        Hakan Fidan: Maybe the Foreign Ministry is assigned with coordination…

        THIRD SCREEN:
        Ahmet Davutoğlu: I mean, I could coordinate the diplomacy but civil war, the military…

        Feridun Sinirlioğlu: That’s what I told back there. For one thing, the situation is different. An operation on ISIL has solid ground on international law. We’re going to portray this is Al-Qaeda, there’s no distress there if it’s a matter regarding Al-Qaeda. And if it comes to defending Suleiman Shah Tomb, that’s a matter of protecting our land.

        Yaşar Güler: We don’t have any problems with that.

        Hakan Fidan: Second after it happens, it’ll cause a great internal commotion (several bombing events is bound to happen within). The border is not under control…

        Feridun Sinirlioğlu:I mean, yes, the bombings are of course going to happen. But I remember our talk from 3 years ago…

        Yaşar Güler: Mr. Fidan should urgently receive back-up and we need to help him supply guns and ammo to rebels. We need to speak with the minister. Our Interior Minister, our Defense Minister. We need to talk about this and reach a resolution sir.

        Ahmet Davutoğlu: How did we get special forces into action when there was a threat in Northern Iraq? We should have done so in there, too. We should have trained those men. We should have sent men. Anyway, we can’t do that, we can only do what diplomacy…

        Feridun Sinirlioğlu: I told you back then, for God’s sake, General, you know how we managed to get those tanks in, you were there.

        Yaşar Güler: What, you mean our stuff?

        Feridun Sinirlioğlu: Yes, how do you think we’ve managed to rally our tanks into Iraq? How? How did we manage to get special forces, the battalions in? I was involved in that. Let me be clear, there was no government decision on that, we have managed that just with a single order.

        FOURTH SCREEN:
        Yaşar Güler: Well, I agree with you. For one thing, we’re not even discussing that. But there are different things that Syria can do right now.

        Ahmet Davutoğlu: General, the reason we’re saying no to this operation is because we know about the capacity of those men.

        Yaşar Güler: Look, sir, isn’t MKE (Mechanical and Chemical Industry Corporation) at minister’s bidding? Sir, I mean, Qatar is looking for ammo to buy in cash. Ready cash. So, why don’t they just get it done? It’s at Mr. Minister’s command.

        Ahmet Davutoğlu: But there’s the spot we can’t act integratedly, we can’t coordinate.

        Yaşar Güler: Then, our Prime Minister can summon both Mr. Defence Minister and Mr. Minister at the same time. Then he can directly talk to them.

        Ahmet Davutoğlu: We, Mr. Siniroğlu and I, have literally begged Mr. Prime Minster for a private meeting, we said that things were not looking so bright.

        FIFTH SCREEN:
        Yaşar Güler: Also, it doesn’t have to be a crowded meeting. Yourself, Mr. Defence Minister, Mr. Interior Minister and our Chief of Staff, the four of you are enough. There’s no need for a crowd. Because, sir, the main need there is guns and ammo. Not even guns, mainly ammo. We’ve just talked about this, sir. Let’s say we’re building an army down there, 1000 strong. If we get them into that war without previously storing a minimum of 6-months’ worth of ammo, these men will return to us after two months.

        Ahmet Davutoğlu: They’re back already.

        Yaşar Güler: They’ll return to us, sir.

        Ahmet Davutoğlu: They’ve came back from… What was it? Çobanbey.

        Yaşar Güler: Yes, indeed, sir. This matter can’t be just a burden on Mr. Fidan’s shoulders as it is now. It’s unacceptable. I mean, we can’t understand this. Why?

        SIXTH SCREEN:
        Ahmet Davutoğlu: That evening we’d reached a resolution. And I thought that things were taking a turn for the good. Our…

        Feridun Sinirlioğlu: We issued the MGK (National Security Council) resolution the day after. Then we talked with the general…

        Ahmet Davutoğlu: And the other forces really do a good follow up on this weakness of ours. You say that you’re going to capture this place, and that men being there constitutes a risk factor. You pull them back. You capture the place. You reinforce it and send in your troops again.

        Yaşar Güler: Exactly, sir. You’re absolutely right.

        Ahmet Davutoğlu: Right? That’s how I interpret it. But after the evacuation, this is not a military necessity. It’s a whole other thing.

        SEVENTH SCREEN
        Feridun Siniroğlu: There are some serious shifts in global and regional geopolitics. It now can spread to other places. You said it yourself today, and others agreed… We’re headed to a different game now. We should be able to see those. That ISIL and all that jazz, all those organisations are extremely open to manipulation. Having a region made up of organisations of similar nature will constitute a vital security risk for us. And when we first went into Northern Iraq, there was always the risk of PKK blowing up the place. If we thoroughly consider the risks and substantiate… As the general just said…

        Yaşar Güler: Sir, when you were inside a moment ago, we were discussing just that. Openly. I mean, armed forces are a “tool” necessary for you in every turn.

        Ahmet Davutoğlu: Of course. I always tell the Prime Minister, in your absence, the same thing in academic jargon, you can’t stay in those lands without hard power. Without hard power, there can be no soft power.

        EIGTH SCREEN
        Yaşar Güler: Sir.

        Feridun Sinirlioğlu: The national security has been politicised. I don’t remember anything like this in Turkish political history. It has become a matter of domestic policy. All talks we’ve done on defending our lands, our border security, our sovereign lands in there, they’ve all become a common, cheap domestic policy outfit.

        Yaşar Güler: Exactly.

        Feridun Siniroğlu: That has never happened before. Unfortunately but…

        Yaşar Güler: I mean, do even one of the opposition parties support you in such a high point of national security? Sir, is this a justifiable sense of national security?

        Feridun Sinirlioğlu: I don’t even remember such a period.

        NINTH SCREEN:
        Yaşar Güler: In what matter can we be unified, if not a matter of national security of such importance? None.

        Ahmet Davutoğlu: The year 2012, we didn’t do it 2011. If only we’d took serious action back then, even in the summer of 2012.

        Feridun Sinirlioğlu: They were at their lowest back in 2012.

        Ahmet Davutoğlu: Internally, they were just like Libya. Who comes in and goes from power is not of any importance to us. But some things…

        Yaşar Güler: Sir, to avoid any confusion, our need in 2011 was guns and ammo. In 2012, 2013 and today also. We’re in the exact same point. We absolutely need to find this and secure that place.

        Ahmet Davutoğlu: Guns and ammo are not a big need for that place. Because we couldn’t get the human factor in order…

  6. dominique deux Says:

    I welcome this development – sorry for the Russian airmen.
    It clarifies hugely the situation, and already diplomatic stances are being readjusted, under the cover of empty soundbites.
    First about Turkey, but you’ve said everything there is to say. It may yet gain back its senses and revert to secularism, but – like France when it was shoved back into the Catholic Church’s steely embrace after 1815 – it will take time. In the meantime, it is a power for evil.
    Second but most importantly, about the “moderate Islamist” militias. They have been touted as the “good” alternate to “evil” ISIS, but they now have shown their true colors. Like ISIS they are but pawns (and in fact, catpaws) for regional would-be hegemons; not to the Saudis but to the self-styled Sultan. Same difference. Shooting at downed, parachuting airmen must have been done on orders from the Sultanate. And being Islamic they had no qualms doing that. Not once but twice.

    • Patrice Ayme Says:

      It seems highly unlikely that France will not be allied to Russia now, as it de facto is, Putin said, and ordered.
      As you say, it brings clarity, focus, and a point with which to transpierce the adversary. Well played, it could be turned against Wall Street/DC based machinations.

    • Patrice Ayme Says:

      The only moderate Islam is not Islam, as Abou Diouf said more than once.

  7. dominique deux Says:

    There is cause for worry, however, as NATO seems to fall for Erdogan’s ruse.
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-dominated-nato-supports-turkish-aggression-against-russia/5491443
    (I am very cautious about the source but the statements it quotes could hardly be forged).

    • Patrice Ayme Says:

      Whatever that is, it will not float: the Russian plane was obviously shot down in a treacherous, if not criminal manner. What Erdogan hoped is the Russians will bring in more performing missile systems which could well shot down an American plane by mistake (Rafales should be much harder to get!) It’s completely obvious that the Russian plane could not have been warned within 17 seconds. Initially a U.S. general said the Russians were not warned.

  8. Patrice Ayme Says:

    [Sent to Ianmiller blog, Dec 3.]

    Agreed to all. There is a further twist in the story. It was long known that Turkey has an intensive trade with the Islamist State: buy their oil (cheap!), let terrorists come in and out (including several who headed for Paris!). Today the Russians produced videos of tanker trucks and added that Erdogan’s family personally profited.

    By the way, the Su24s were two, and the one which crashed did so very far inside Syria. The Turks wanted to pull a fast one against Russia. Hollande of France has been shuttling between Washington, Ankara, Moscow, London, even Paris, as he tries to make the anti-ISIS coalition stronger. There is an accord to send German and Russian troops to Mali, so that shock units of the French army can be diverted to more serious combat…
    https://patriceayme.wordpress.com/2015/11/26/russian-jet-downed-by-islamizing-turkey/

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