Syrian Red Line

Obama said that Assad using gas in Syria would be a red line. Then he muttered that he could not tell which shade of pink it was. However French laboratories  determined and French foreign minister Fabius, an ex-PM, declared officially, that chemical weapons were used in Syria by Assad. Many times. The neurotoxic agent is Sarin.

Time to go to war. War is the force that defines civilization.

Civilization Defended: Ypres

Civilization Defended: Ypres

Why to make nerve agent a casus belli? First, chemicals are unfair weapons: one cannot surrender to a gas cloud. Second, militarized chemicals also allow mass killings, cheaply, and readily (in the Nazi extermination camps, most of assassinations happened using deadly gas made by IG Farben, a chemical cartel created by Wall Street in the 1920s).

France hates chemical weapons.

In World War First on 22 April 1915, the German Army released 168 tons of chlorine, north of the Belgian town of Ypres. It formed a gray-green cloud that drifted across a division of French from Martinique and Algeria. Some tried to flee. They got asphyxiated while running. Within ten minutes, more than 5,000 French troops were gazed to death. Yes, in minutes, five thousands dead: analogies with Auschwitz are invited.

Ypres After Fascist Prussian Attack WWI

Ypres After Fascist Prussian Attack WWI

That massacre left a 7,000 meter gap in the Allied frontline. However, the German infantry, wary of the gas, failed to exploit the breach as much as the criminals who ordered them around wanted them to.

Other Canadian and French troops were rushed in. The Germans reapplied gas. In spite of various counter-measures against the gas, the Canadians suffered 1,800 dead from the chlorine by 24th April.

(Canadians? Were where the “Americans”? They were at peace, and would take another two years to threaten fascist Germany with words: the closest adviser of USA president Wilson had proposed an alliance with Germany in 1914! Thus we can see that World War One happened, in part, because the USA played Germany against France and Britain. Same old, same old…)

The allies called the German usage of gas a war crime. International treaties outlawed the usage of chemicals in shells. The Germans argued disingenuously that the gas had been released from “canisters” not “shells”. Fascists are disingenuous, or they are not.

Because the element of surprise was passed, never again during the war was a gas attack so successful. The Allied Democracies, especially the Brits (up-wind in Flanders!) had to retaliate in kind: only gas could stop  those who used it. All together 100,000 soldiers died from gas, right away, and one million were handicapped for life (most dying in the following years).

France, Britain and Canada screamed loudly that the Prussian General staff was a gang of criminals.

Yet after the war, under pressure from the glandularly deprived, and soon stroke struck USA president Wilson, obvious German war criminals of the First World war, starting with the Kaiser and the four generals and two admirals who had plotted the war, as early as December 1912, were not prosecuted.

That Colonel House, Wilson’s grey eminence, had proposed an American-British-German world domination deal to the Kaiser, on May 1, 1914, obviously inflected American policy thereafter. In particular from 1919, all the way to 1942… don’t be surprised if this sort of history is not taught in pro-plutocratic Harvard.

The non-prosecution of gross war criminality in World War I opened the way to Auschwitz. In the first few weeks of the German invasion, Belgian and French civilians were made hostage to military death threats, and then summarily executed in retaliation (for whatever).

Clearly, the generals who ordered the usage of gas on April 22, 1915, ought to have been judged, condemned and executed. And if there were 500 “Prussian” colonels, and generals to be executed, that should have been done. Their successors would have been in turn, more enthusiastic at executing the Nazis in a timely manner.

Sometimes, civilization is all about executions.

(A dark Obama, his wings laden with smart bombs just passed by… This one has been told to man battlefields exclusively, if he is really as smart as he wants the rabble to believe he is.)

How did the Germans become the greatest, less excusable, mass criminals of the twentieth Century? By not being punished vigorously enough in a timely manner.

BASF chemist Fritz Haber, a Nobel Laureate, had developed the processes used to make ammonia. Haber came up with the idea of using chlorine gas as a weapon. After the war, Haber should have been caged like the wild and dangerous beast he was, and left there to eat dry bread and water for the next thirty years.

That would have emphasized Rabelais’ point, published in 1532 CE, that “Science without conscience is only ruin of the soul.” Instead, some people still harbor respect for Haber, that despicable degenerate, to this day. And please don’t tell me he is honorable because he made ammonia; somebody else would have.

Haber’s violation of international law and common human decency was one of the many moral compromises that foreshadowed greater horrors. As the world war Germany had deliberately started drained manpower from its chemical factories, Bayer Chief Executive Friedrich Carl Duisberg lobbied for a novel solution: importing forced labor from occupied Belgium.

In other words, all what came to be known as “Nazism” was taught to Hitler, Himmler, Goebbels and Goering’s generation by their forefathers. Their unpunished forefathers.

German fascism kept on going, through sheer mental inertia. It gazed more than ten million civilians in WWII.

The Germans, amusingly, were told never to do this again, and signed a very strong treaty about this, never using gas militarily. In 1944-1945, Adolf Hitler’s kingdom of the beasts was perforated by the invading armies of his enemies. Hitler, and the top Nazis knew they were going to die, and that their world of horror was being annihilated. They were total fanatics. Martha Goebbels, wife of ephemeral Reich Chancellor and propaganda chief Goebbels, would poison her six children (although some of her children tried to resist the monstrous author of their days).

Hitler disposed of dozens of thousands tons of stockpiled nerve agent, and the means to deliver them (hypersonic long range rockets and several types of jet bombers). Hitler used his V2 rockets to bomb London and Paris. He could have ordered to gas London and Paris. But Hitler had been gazed in 1918 (by the French). He knew the consequences would have been terrible: Germany would be gazed back, to start with. So the Nazis did not use gas. They did not even consider the usage of gas. On the battlefield.

A moderate mullah, Hassan Rouhani, was just elected president of Iran (on the first turn, by surprise). International sanctions on Iran have been so severe that Iranians chose someone who has always been keen to negotiate with the West (he had been fired from his nuclear negotiator role for being too keen that way).

The best way to encourage people to vote for moderates is by punishing firmly nasty people such as chemical Assad. The systematic use of chemicals cannot be left so unpunished that it keeps on being used. The mood of using gas, expecting to get away with it, could expand, spreading to other countries, in all sorts of ways.

There are of course many other reasons to go to war in Syria, some all the way back to 638 CE, when, after a four year war, characterized by the illness of the emperor, huge tactical blunders, and a lot of luck for the enemy, the Roman empire lost Syria… to fanatics. The best way to fight fanaticism is early on.  

The Western military intervention in Syria will have to support only secular, anti-tyrannical forces. Assad knows this. So he (and co-plotting Iran) released craftily religious fanatics (Al Nusra) to pollute his own opposition and give him a Western palatable excuse to kill it. Another complication is that there is a triangle of hatred, mutual support, and co-dependence between the Muslim Brotherhood (Egypt), the Saudi family (Arabia, oil), and Washington (Wall Street, Dollar, Plutocracy running amok). All these are invested in Syria.

Well, maybe it’s a good occasion to break the cycle. The USA’s oil production is becoming considerable, and the USA is not dependent of the Saudis anymore…

In any case, the usage of Sarin has made the situation clear and transparent. That, by itself, gives enough of a moral reason to go to war in Syria.

Don’t forget that the origin of the concept of morality is sustainability. A world were tyrants use weapons of mass destruction so that their wives can shop till they drop, is not sustainable.

***

Patrice Ayme

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28 Responses to “Syrian Red Line”

  1. Mike Borgman Says:

    The brightest part of this horrific story is that the Syrians are going to pay a price they never thought imaginable.
    The “small weapons” meme we’re being fed by the msm is b.s.. There are highly effective weapons being marshaled from all over the world and headed towards Syria. The term deep s–t for the Syrians, can’t even come close to defining what’s about to happen. Also, just for fun dev-grp is probably already on the ground with the CIA and for those of you that haven’t figured it out, the CIA has morphed into one of the best special forces teams in the world. Oh, and don’t forget the Mossad, like anybody could forget them.

  2. Patrice Ayme Says:

    Dear Mike: French special forces and other “administrative” forces are already, officially, on the ground (i.e. Syria), for nearly a year. They are supposedly helping in governmental tasks (on the rebel side).

    The aim ought to be to force the forces around Assad to negotiate a secular, democratic agreement, and keep the army (once sanitized) in power of sort. One should not repeat the Iraq situation, where Bush-rumsfeld disbanded the army (until Petraus negotiated with its remnants 4 years later).
    PA

    • Mike Borgman Says:

      Patrice,

      Won’t be close to Iraq and no offense to the French Special Forces but we’re talking Dev-Grp. Also, these arms aren’t supplying some official military effort(big diff).

  3. Patrice Ayme Says:

    Mike: DEVGRP: Special Warfare Development Group (US Navy designation for SEAL Team Six; Dam Neck Virginia)…

    Modern France had special forces fighting in the desert since… the 1790s (so did the US Marines…in Tripoli)

    And the French got lots of practice, ever since France invaded Algeria in the early 19C… In Mali lots of special forces have been used, as in the assault on Tripoli. Then French “Marsoins” (“Porpoises”) were used, in conjonctions with Berber Jihadists from the south mountains.

    Also lots of people with Middle Eastern genes in France, and about ten million people of recent African origins, including millions talking native Arabic.

    War in Syria would have to mean a no-fly zone, to start with. Just to protect Western troops in Cyprus or Jordan.
    PA

    • Mike Borgman Says:

      Sorry Patrice,

      No one is as good as ST 6, and I mean no one. The no-fly zone is so we can practice with some new toys, we’d just be shooting down old MIG technology anyway.

      Ask yourself why there’s a big red neon sign in the countries surrounding Syria that says all Hezbollah and Iranians welcome. Syria is about to become a killing field, killing three birds with one stone.

      As for history, maybe the French will bring their trebuchet’s. And before you lecture me, I know the Chinese invented them.
      And as you have probably figured out, I’m enjoying this so much I wish we were sitting outside enjoying an espresso in the sunshine having this discussion.
      Plus, I watch French shows on Netflix but I require subtitles.

      And never think I’m a bigot, one of my dearest friends is Lebanese and my brother in law is building a resort in Portugal with French partners.

      Peace,

      Mike

  4. Patrice Ayme Says:

    Dear Mike: I enjoy this too!

    USA Special Forces ridiculized themselves in Iran under Carter. Two of their planes collided. OK, that was long ago.

    Guess what? The disposal of Bin Laden was a partial failure. OK, he is dead, but the real aim and success would have to take him ALIVE. ST6 blundered around on the ground for half an hour before killing bin Laden (from what they say).

    And guess what? After training like demons, they still lost a huge helicopter; something about the downwash, like they could not have predicted it. So ST6 is not god.

    To make fun of the French militarily is something Americans need to do, for a variety of reasons. It’s just silly. Right now, in the air, the French republic has several weapon systems the USA tries desperately to develop. Supersonic Active stealth bombers with stand-off long range (500 kilometers) HYPERSONIC nuclear tipped cruise missiles.

    Fact is the defense of the West right now depends upon the USA, France, and the UK. In this order. The rest is neglectable. Historically, the Franks created the West, including Germany, England and, thus, the USA. Trebuchets or not. (The Roman army was the first to use heavy artillery; the Mongols introduced rockets… by modifying Chinese tech.)

    Bigot ot not bigot is not the point. Facts make the points.

    All right, my forces are undefeated, and my silence in the next few hours will be caused by having to attend some business in the woods, not because I fled there in shame and terror…
    PA

    • Mike Borgman Says:

      OBL was never intended to live, why make him a martyr (notice how quickly the body was disposed of). Now, we rarely keep enemy combatants alive, again why make martyrs (they’re forgotten so quickly, it’s as if they never existed). It’s an old tactic but a very effective one.

      I love the European/American alliance and our brave countrymen deserve the utmost respect for the sacrifices that they’ve made throughout the world.

      When I turned 18, we were classified as 1-H, draft-able but there was no more draft in 1972. I had friends who lost their lives in Nam and friends who were treated poorly when they returned to the States. Every year I seek out Vietnam veterans and first I thank them for their service and second I apologize if they were ever treated disrespectfully. I have a friend who took heavy exposure to agent orange and now has Parkinson’s. No one knows for sure but the Doctors at the V.A. he attends, are pretty sure what the cause is.

      By the way my favorite jet in the whole world is the Dassault Rafale. I get on YouTube and watch them doing maneuvers. Now I’m not 100% sure, but I don’t think there’s another aircraft that matches this jet. I watch it compared to other jets and it’s just in a class by itself.

      I’m not a war monger, I just accept it as part of the human condition.

  5. Hazxan Says:

    “I’m not a war monger, I just accept it as part of the human condition.”

    Interesting statement. While it is certainly part of the human “condition”, I doubt it is part of human “nature”, Any more than slavery was (and still is in a few places), Using this as an example of something that was part of the human condition for millennian but has now become unacceptable.

    As General Smedley G Butler’s book title says “War is a Racket”. if we went along with his suggestion of conscripting the owners of capital first, we’d soon see how unnatural modern war really is.

  6. Hazxan Says:

    Patrice, you cannot surrender to a nuclear bomb nor to a drone strike. Does that not make them “unfair” too?

    How can it be “fair” if your problem with chemical weapons as opposed to nuclear (or stealth…or drone) is that they are “cheap”? Should mass killing be the preserve only of the wealthy i.e. the plutocrats?

    • Patrice Ayme Says:

      Dear Hazxan: Good questions all! I have been very clear, for more than 4 years, that drone strikes outside of battlefields are war crimes. For example, for the USA, Yemen and Pakistan are not battlefield, so drones strikes there are war crimes. Same for nukes.

      See: https://patriceayme.wordpress.com/2013/04/28/strikes-against-civilization/

      That chemicals are super cheap makes the problem of chemicals accute. BTW, it’s against international law to use LASERS to blind, even combatants (although it’s NOT unlawful to use them to kill people… in a DECLARED war).
      PA

      • Hazxan Says:

        Does anybody do anything so quaint as “Declare” war these days?

        • Patrice Ayme Says:

          The French republic gave an ultimatum to Gaddafi little different to the one it gave to Hitler. Also in the Mali war, France could just intervene as she wished, as those people were bandits (from international law viewpoint). In Ivory Coast, France had, or knew she would get, UN back-up.
          PA

  7. Patrice Ayme Says:

    Dear Mike: War is indeed part of human condition. Supposedly, sibbling rivalries can get as bad as bullying by strangers. Yet, kittens have to be rough with each other, so as to learn to not claw each other to death.

    Ultimately, thinking itself is disruptive, an aggression against what is.

    Putin knows this, and he declared in London, looking extremely agitated, that “one should not support people who eat their enemies’ organs in public”. and that Russia keeps on “selling weapons to the legitimate government” (such as Mig 29s and S300s). He claimed one was trying to stand on its head all of European civilization.

    Some of the guys who did the Bin Laden raid claim that there were no instructions to kill OBL.If there were, it would be extremely grave, another attempt to cover the tracks of backfiring manipulations in the 1990s. Obama himslef has backed off assertions he sort of made about having ordered the execution…

    • Mike Borgman Says:

      Patrice,

      Know people on DevGru, Know people who are training to be considered for DevGru and know that there was no intention of taking OBL alive. Abbottabad Pakistan is highly problematic and therefore any potential turf war had to be removed…..
      Anyway, someone who puts 11,000 rounds through his or her Sig P226 on an annualized basis, generally doesn’t make mistakes.
      As an aside, all the .50 cal retro’s are done up here in WA.

      • Patrice Ayme Says:

        dear Mike: All I know is what the guy who claims he was there said on “60 minutes”, the one who wrote:”No Easy Day” (which I also read).

        If the aim was really to fight fundamentalist Wahhabism, catching OBL alive was of the essence, as he was not the inner brains behind Al Qaeda. Those are rather Ayman Al Zawahiri, a trained surgeon, one of Sadate’s assassins, and a Muslim Brotherhood’s top guys. OBL had lots to say. And he would have talked, because he loved to justify himself.

        BTW, yes the Brotherhood is basically in power in Egypt. Bin Laden was the link between the Saudi (family plutocracy) and the Brotherhood. I wonder what role the good doctor Zawahiri is playing in Egypt at this very moment.

        The key in all this is whether the USA will decide to ditch the Saudis, and the various Emirates. I highly recommend it. The problem is that they have become gangsta plutocracy central dressed funny (by dressed funny I mean they are in Muslim brotherhood garb, spirtitually speaking).

        In contrast the Wall Street plutocratic types are dressed in “liberal” garb. There is an osmosis between them all, and now it’s not far from getting dangerous, as the Greater Depression proceeds, and the probability of fascist outcomes keeps on climbing.

        Should one have wanted to untangle that tale, it was important to catch OBL alive. Thus, for those who want to do so, the death of OBL remind me of a mafia killing. Anyway as I said, that guy said what he said. What you are saying is that he is disinforming us (disinformation complete with claiming he is going to be prosecuted for revealing secrets).
        PA

    • Mike Borgman Says:

      Never, ever forget that there’s always two or sometimes three stories. OSB was assassinated, the end. As for Putin, that’s nothing more than Kabuki Theater.

      I’m actually not this cynical in real life, it’s just the realization that almost everything we think we know, is utter B.S. One of my bright spots is Paul Krugman and discussing Keynesian economics with a PhD. who came from the Chicago School of Economics and was taught under the Friedman methodology. He’s now a true convert to Keynesian economics, so it’s a very fun time for me.

      I’m studying the so called disaffected in our country which is an older Pew study and all I can do sigh. It reminds me of my work with the reservation Indians and I’m just at a lost for words, but it ties in with the greater project.

      At least the garden is starting to grow, there’s great peace in the soil except a zucchini from hell has shown up and has decided to devour the entire garden.

      Sorry to ramble, but it beats Valium.

      Peace,

      Mike

  8. Hazxan Says:

    Patrice, do you really think kittens clawing each other has any relation at all to modern war? If so, then maybe sibling rivalry should be made a war crime under the Geneva Convention! Rivalry and competition between members of a species has nothing to do with the way humans conduct war. There is something else, something unique to the human species Conflict and dispute is not what is commonly meant be “war” anymore than it is do do with “murder”, unless you stretch the definitions so as to be useless.

    Also, some people kidnap, torture and murder and do nasty things with the body parts of other people. Does that mean serial killing is also “part of the human condition”? Is there a minimum number of people engaged in an activity before it becomes officially certified as “The Human Condition”? If so, please, in the interest of science, share that number. 

    An abhorrence of war is also a part of the human condition. And one not so rare. Maybe war is, like slavery (and serial killing) an aberration, the result of a unique flaw in humans (because no other species conducts war as humans do). After all, war is fraught with paradox. If only the peaceful would declare “war on war” and kill all the warmongers then we could finally live in peace. Of course that can never happen because the peaceful are peaceful by definition.

    And what part could war possibly serve in the progress and evolution of a species? Is it all about culling our overpopulation? If so, just say so rather than using the twisted non-logic of “ok” and “not ok” ways of conducting mass killing . Of course our leaders want us to believe that it is all “just nornal” for the masses to give their lives defending their riches. “There is no other way”. Another of their cliches. Rationally, what role could military might ever have in solving a dispute? None – unless you believe God somehow gives arms to the righteous. Ah the old “God is on our side” story that we are told to believe. Funny that our enemies believe exactly the same. A God on both sides? Such is the human condition….

    The Human Condition itself is another cliche easily to avoid thinking on difficult issues. A lazy (and warmongers) way out. We have physical limitations that legitimately could be part of a fixed, coherent “condition”. eg unlike birds, we cannot fly. Unlike trees, we cannot grow roots into the ground. Psychologically though, our condition is not fixed. War is the result of our software programming, not our hardware. Do you not believe humans can live healthy fulfilling lives without reciprocal mass kliling every few years? That is the difference between the kitten play fights and war. The play fights are part of growing into a healthy cat. A human needs to AVOID war to grow to a healthy adult. War is a social construct and we *could* construct it differently, if we fought ignorance and had the courage to challenge those who benefit from things “exactly as they are”

    I note that you have a whole load of interesting facts about the German use of gas in WW1. This is an interesting contrast with the complete lack of “facts” regarding the current situation in Syria. Some months ago, there were stories of the US training the rebels to use chemical weapons.

    Was it Churchill who said “in war, truth is the first casualty”? The truth is, our leaders are pathological liars, even in the supposed peace time. A time when we conduct our wars as far from home as possible. Securing the resource wealth while ensuring the people back home live in a kind of psychological fantasy Disneyland. Have you not learned from WMDS? Gulf of Tonkin? Bloody Sunday? The USS Maine? I’m sure there are many more. They continually lie to push their ideological agenda and I doubt there is any exception going on in Syria.

  9. Patrice Ayme Says:

    Dear Hazxan:You say: “Maybe war is, like slavery (and serial killing) an aberration, the result of a unique flaw in humans (because no other species conducts war as humans do).”

    Unique flaw? Lions, hyenas and chimpanzees have been observed to conduct wars of extermination. For years. They are all extremely social species.

    I was 100% against Bush’s attack on Saddam Hussein (in spite of “chemical Ali”, and the chemical massacre of 5,000 Kurds). I did not buy the WMD stuff for one second.So please don’t put me in that basket.

    The Dark Side is, unfortunately, necessary to man. It’s a question of technology, or, more exactly, lack thereof. One day culture will be enough. Right now, culling, of people or ideas, necessary.It’s that, of extermination of the species.

    I have an unpublished book on the subject; I was going to publish it, but, instead I worked behind the scenes on books for Obama. Back in 2006-2007.
    PA

  10. Hazxan Says:

    Hi Patrice. In a nutshell, I think we are in the “nature vs nurture” debate! And as the jury is still out…it could rage for a long time!

    Couple of points. Above you talk about German fascism in the first half oif the 20th C. Now is that because it is something genetically hardwired in the German people that is missing in the rest? I highly doubt it – it was a product of the politics you mention above, and probably the anti-joy culture Germans such as Hitler were born into. Because Hitler was not alone. There was a whole generation of people like him.

    On animal wars. I’m unaware of anything regarding aninals *in their natural state” killing for anything other than food. Cats and dogs kill for nothing. Lions and tigers kill for food, possibly to defend the pride. Scientists of the same ilk as the crooked economists who will say anything to get in with the elite may well have “seen* animals conducting war. As proof that our humans really are following their nature as they lead us to glorious victory.

    Now domesticated animals *do* kill for nothing. Cats, dogs do it. Liions in a zoo will to. My belief is that civilisation/domestication has a price. At least so far… We get material and physical comfort at the cost of a deep “spiritual” emptiness. With that gaping hole out the core of our way of living, we become emotionally unbalanced. All sorts of nonsence creeps in as we want something civilizarion cannot give us.

    Art? Literature? Culture? These are expressions of the pain of our loss. Not anything to aspire to. And who cares for culture really? Right now 50% of the West would watch video games, junk TV, mindless sport, ANY drivel. Science? Science for the majority ends with flicking a switch. It would take the loss of only a few 10,000 scientists and engineers and billions would be in worse than the dark age. For the majority, scientists are witch doctors. And vice versa. Old buildings are tolerated so long as they bring in tourist pounds.

    Because Western civilisation seems both economically and morally bankrupt right now. Another part of the price is that most of us live as drones. That is necessary to provide a minimum of comfort for all and the luxurious excess demanded by the sociopaths with the power. And I haven’t even mentioned that resources are running out, yet! You know all about that Patrice. It’s hard to be optimistic about the future of humans,

    One question: Why is the Dark Side necessary? What would we lose if we didn’t have it?

    Thanks for your always interesting writings!

    • Patrice Ayme Says:

      Dear Hazxan: Of course the German trouble in the period 1860-1945 was purely cultural. Ironically, it was started by Bismarck, a renaissance man (he sang the Marseillaise in perfect French; he spoke 5 languages; Bismarck also started universal health care!). when Bismarck understood what he had started, he was fired by the young Kaiser, grand son of Queen Victoria…

      Rabid Christianism, Saint Louis (very influential), Luther, Kant, Herder, Rousseau… And their followers. There are the culprits.

      Extermination wars in the animals I quoted, is a fact. They kill for territory, or to punish traitors (chimps). Animals are much brighter than generally said.

      The Dark Side is indeed necessary. And there are two types of reasons for it. The ecology of the planet, and, more sinister, the ecology of the mind.

      thanks for thanking me!
      PA

      • Hazxan Says:

        Patrice, Ok, this is going at a tangent, but an interesting one!

        Whatever you say about the Germans, don’t forget that the Allies actually won! Hence proved to be *more* effective killing machines than the germans. The Prussian education system is effectively what we have here too. Education for the wealthy, indoctrination for the masses.

        Ants conduct wars, too. Is Ant-hood the most that humans can aspire to? Do lions send the young low status lions off to win the territory? I think not and that is a key difference.

        If our leaders all fought it out personally, I would fully support that! But no, they stay well away and send men far stronger than themselves. Our leaders do not fight their way up from the bottom of the tribe. In humans, status is most often arbitrarily inherited. Does any animal have the concept of “inherited status and wealth?” There is a lucrative Harvard post waiting for the pseudo-scientist who can ‘prove’ that animals inheritr status and that is why it is “right, proper and natural” that humans do the same!

        We are not led by prime physical specimens such as sportsmen. No, we are led by actors! To get to the top of our heap requires the ability to be a convincing liar. To pretend to be other than you really are.

        Oh, you’ve mentioned the “apha male” behaviour of wolves before. Were you aware the original opinion has been just about refuted? Male wolves fight their way viciously to the top where they rule with terror and violence only applies to wolves removed from their natural environment. Domesticated, kept in zoos.

        In the wild, they don’t behave like this at all. They co-operate and lead a family existence. Google it! What’s interesting is “Which theory do you choose?” The evidence is conflicting. Human’s are terrible at justifying their shameful traits. Cherry picking animal behaviour is futile as I could always cherry pick some other behaviour. If you want to be an ant, stop using technology and go live underground.:-)

        And don;t forget Milgram who proved that 65% (ish) of people will hurt another even if they have no natural desire to, provide they are told to by somebody of higher status. Fear helps too.

        70% sheep. 5% sociopaths. and 25% wondering what the hell the rest are up to. That’s my take on the human condition!

        • Patrice Ayme Says:

          Hazxan: A bit overwhelmed here, hence the slow answer. And it’s going to get way worse in the next five days (travelling OFF Internet!)
          I am going to try to develop a bit the theme at hand, to answer you…. In a full blown essay. Probably not before nxt wk… Here is an extract:

          Once at a reception, Stalin was getting drunk (no surprise there). He told Churchill:”Hitler killed twenty million Russians.I killed even more. ” Then he chuckled.
          ***
          Dominant lions push the teenagers out of the pride. Refusing that means death.

          Status is pretty much inherited in Rhesus Monkeys (Japan), Chimps, Baboons… One should introduce a gini index for them (SERIOUS!)

          In wolves, the alpha couple forbids others to have sex. that’s resented, and the alpha female often ends up assassinated… But otherwise they cooperate…

          Barring massive tech progress, human condition means 5 billion dead by war… Pretty soon. Democratic progress is needed too. Out with representative democracy, introduce the direct sort!
          PA

  11. Hazxan Says:

    A baboon troop can change it’s culture from an aggresive heirarchy to something “kinder and gentler”.

    http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2004/04/13-01.html

    Full paper here: http://www.plosbiology.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pbio.0020106

    So surely human’s could do the same? I remain unconvinced that we *need* wars involving millions of deaths in order to progress. Well,other than to progress to extinction.

    The hardest thing about military training is that most humans really do not want to kill another. Hence the rituals and the training developed over centuries. Why the mass cases of PTSD for something so natural? Does the lion get similarly stressed when it decides the young must leave?

    A global elite needs the wars to maintain and further it’s own position. That’s pretty much all there is to it.

    • Patrice Ayme Says:

      Well, Hazxan, I never advocated that we *needed* wars. especially NOT in order to progress. certianly what is happening in Syria is not *progress*.

      On the other hand, Assad refused to change his murderous plutocracy. In Brazil, the plutocracy is not as murderous as assad’s was in Syria, but it has been very intense. Voting for ever and ever, even for dedicated leftists (Lula, Roussef) changed NOTHING. the Gini is still sky high, and getting higher. So, at some point, we The People have to go to war to answer the war done against us. In Sao Paulo, plutocrats commute by helicopter…

      I am familiar with baboons. Actually, I had a very loving pet baboon. Yet baboon society can be immensely brutal. One bite of a male across the chest of a female will kill her. they need the brutality to survive in the wild.

      Speaking of the wilds, I am going there for the next few days, so my electronic presence shall be inexistent. It helps reset to do dangerous things… ;-)!
      PA

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  13. Peace From War | Some of Patrice Ayme's Thoughts Says:

    […] can exist. After Libya, and Mali, the time to illustrate that principle anew has come again. The Syrian Red Line is […]

  14. Chemical War Prohibition (1925) | Some of Patrice Ayme's Thoughts Says:

    […] government of France (the depositary power). Thirty-eight states originally signed the Protocol. France, the first victim of a massive chemical attack, in 1915, was the first signatory to ratify the Protocol on 10 May 1926. As of May 2013, 138 […]

  15. Pandora’s World | Some of Patrice Ayme's Thoughts Says:

    […] what I wrote two years ago, “Force Works, Syria Next?“, and more recently (“Syrian Red Line” and “Peace From […]

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